Curse

Lania Elderfire · Nov 23, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

I am a woman. But thanks for such a good reply, as I wanna discuss this with no flame wars >,<

You didn't come off as proving it at all, I don't think it is anything to prove as everybody can see the bodies are very disproportional... I do got alot of the same issues as you do but regarding the females, but it's more that the bodies are twisted, different characters have different breastsize(And before guys think I hate big breasts; this regards small breasts too. I don't see why profession has anything to do with your breastsize, though I'd understand female warrior if they at all had something called muscles, but they don't...) and that I feel like a pedophile playing female assasins.

I am guessing that before they had alot less options perhaps in making human bodies? or that they had no really good program to do it with? Cause I feel like they just scanned one of their concept art drawings in and made the bodies look odd and like from a drawing.

I agree the males are too buff, I definitly agree with you on the monk males. Have you seen their neck? Gosh did they model it from a bird?

I think as game engines improve character models and the looks of them will get better as game companies try to go for more of a realistic look rather than a stereotypical cartoonish look. I think some of the screenshots for GW2 looks promising with some male characters that look normal. It would be nice to be able to choose more "body types" too. Why couldn't a male warrior be skinny and agile like those Chinese martial artists? Or female assassins that don't look like they are anorexic 14 years olds... I think they should make everything customizable from muscle tone, posture, size of the hips, waist, chest area, arm length, etc... but if they did that people can make some really fugly looking characters with messed up proportions that make GW or WOW characters look normal. I call those male monk necks "cardassian necks" from startrek cause they have that weird neck bulk there ^_^.

AmbientMelody · Nov 23, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

Hello 7_7

I see alot of people, especially guys QQing about male armor in Guild Wars, their looks in the game, and generaly everything is to some homosexual in this game.

Why do so many, well I will use the name guys, since I feel this is mostly around guys. Why do so many guys hate playing men/the looks of men in this game?
If you're a woman and would like to answer why you don't like to play females/males go ahead. Wheter it is the looks or because you don't like the attention.

Being an aesthetics-driven guy (I'm much into art, not so much for role-playing, though), I find the male models artistically inferior - they're shallow, plain unimpressive and artificially constrained - it almost seems as the male character, which desperately clings to the stereotype of 'manly man', in a fantasy world full of gifted and capable women, is afraid to be himself, to express his inner self, in fear of showing his weakness.

What that weakness is, I don't know, I put a random guess that digital male characters share the same fears as male players feeling insecure when playing female characters with their friends or guild. It almost seems, at times, that the primary drive behind creation of male GW characters, is trying not to be a woman, instead of being a man.

Truth be said, we have many common points and hold values which are universal for both genders, but somehow only female characters are allowed to 'be themselves', instead of trying not to be a man (example of this: there is a fair dose of expression in female faces, and some female faces are really ugly, but somehow still draw curiosity and attention, because the face isn't ashamed of itself ; it's free from judgement of the others, strong, independent).

Pretty much the same rule follows in the armour design - each female set is 'proud of itself' in some way (even if, again, some are plain ugly ... e.g. female FoW armour), whereas a male set is allowed to be ugly for the sake of being ugly, and to exist without a purpose other than to be ugly. On the other hand, I find the Paragon a comical attempt at 'feminising' the male, instead of making it more 'manly' in a good way - making it less constrained, making it artistically superior and making it proud of it's existence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

Hello 7_7
Also; another thing I've noticed is that men can/get harrased by the choice of gender they play, also, I've noticed that the difference between a PvP player and a RPG player matters alot in this choice.

I haven't really noticed this as much, if at all. There are different motivations in PvP than in PvE, but it primarily boils down to objectification of PvP characters. Many people will project what they don't like in people during PvP toon customisation, rather than what they admire in them. They also feel less attached to PvP toons, because they're, pretty much, short-lived.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

No, I'm not a extreme femenist. But I am a femenist. ^^

I an anti-feminist, so I guess it balanced out

I'm for the equality, though - what I can't (and won't) stand is misandry and double-standards. Equality and fair treating are never to be promoted at the expense of the other party, as that pretty much defies the core idea behind equality and fairness.

Lania Elderfire · Nov 23, 2010, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

I an anti-feminist, so I guess it balanced out

I'm for the equality, though - what I can't (and won't) stand is misandry and double-standards. Equality and fair treating are never to be promoted at the expense of the other party, as that pretty much defies the core idea behind equality and fairness.

Then it's only fair to have the next 2000+ years to be a matriarchal society to balance out the last 2000 years of patriarchy then ^_^, j/k

Arato · Nov 23, 2010, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

I hate his music. All of it.

Then you're probably lacking a soul, because hundreds of millions if not billions of people will say, Thriller was a great album.

How old were you in 1982?

Haggis of Doom · Nov 24, 2010, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arato

Then you're probably lacking a soul, because hundreds of millions if not billions of people will say, Thriller was a great album.

How old were you in 1982?

Not that I don't like Michael Jackson's music (I do), but that's just horrible argumentation

On topic:

I find it weird that people assume you are hardcore RPing (ie. living vicariously through your character) in a RPG. Sure, RPG means Role Play Game, but do you have to be an orc to play as an orc?! If males can only play males and females can only play females, I don't see why it should be less taboo to see non-human races running around in RPGs.

It's not about "who you'd like to be", either. I'm pretty sure that given a choice, most people would choose to stay human instead of turning Charr/Orc/Undead/whatever, even if we indeed lived in such fantasy worlds. Though I know a couple friends who wouldn't mind being born as elves... but that's mostly (I assume) because an elf is basically a pretty human with pointy ears.

Spookii · Nov 24, 2010, 05:08 AM // 05:08

I'm a female and I play females in the game.

I don't play the game to stare at sexy male pixels (Dervish are pretty sexy, though ^-^).
I play females because I can put myself in their shoes. It's a little difficult for me to become immersed in the game when my character is a chubb male Mesmer who I really have nothing in common with what-so-ever.

I'm just not that interested in being...a man. Neither on a game or in real life.

As far as giving away the fact that I'm a female, I really couldn't care less. Sure, it's annoying to get the "R U A GIRL?" and if you say yes, then you are pressed further with "O WOW HOW OLD R U?". But I realized a long time ago that I can't control what other people say/do, all I can do is control how I react. I either don't answer, I lie, or I tell them the truth. If they bother me, I always have /ignore. It's just a part of life, in my opinion. I don't think that it calls for any huge feminist movement to change anything. Guys are interested in girls. Period. That won't change and shouldn't change (for the sake of procreation, lol). We just have to know how to handle ourselves when we run into the weirdos, especially with strangers on the internet.

I think this world needs a good dose of manners more than anything, and not just because of how girls are treated on video games.

I used to play an online SIM game that was probably 99% females. I knew two guys who played the game and they were constantly swarmed by the girls on the game. It sort of works from both ends, imo. We just happen to be the minority.

Besides, I don't think it's the fact that I play a female character that gives away my gender. Heh, girls typically type like girls methinks. :>

Roen · Nov 24, 2010, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookii

I'm a female...

O WOW HOW OLD R U?

/sorry...had to.

matter of time · Nov 24, 2010, 08:51 AM // 08:51

sth is behind this XX (female) XY (male)

... it seems that it is much easier to play a role of female by a male than otherwise ... everyone can play the game the way he/she likes it is obvious but the fact that males play females much more frequently means that they simply treat this game to the some extent erotic way ... which is ok ... however I am male and play only male chars... I rather prefer to look with the kind of interest

at ''girl's charrs'' in real life ... to be honest I would personally feel bit uncomfortably to see my charr with ''stockings''

It is just like with mirror ... I have no problem to see myself in it ... the problem would be to see a lady insted of me even very pretty one ... but I don't mind everyone can entertain the way he/she likes provided that noone around is hurted

By the way very good post Spookii

Nekodesu · Nov 24, 2010, 11:06 AM // 11:06

I want to just make a heads up to all of you; This is not really a thread where I want to put light on men playing females, as this has been put light on maybe a million times. Edit: Sometimes it can be a little hard to really get where I want to about this but; the main thing I wonder about is what I typed down here and what men and women think about males in guild wars. Or make characters. Though I do see that alot of people wanna tell their opinion regarding why they play female or male, which is alright for me. I don't mind as long as this thread can be serious and not all about guys who like to wank at female characters and who doesn't, or which girl is the most exctreme femenist cus she doesn't like it. (Yes, I have read alot of thread on other pages, and they usually end with a flame war regarding just those two things

)

I do however, want to discuss that GW focuses on women characters. If they do or not, I don't know. But that's atleast how I see it. Almost all except 2 box is of females, the females have alot more different types of armor, the faces are usually better made and you can choose from alot more, you can choose more female hairstyles aswell.

^This, bothers me the most ^^;

**cosyfiep** · Nov 24, 2010, 04:49 PM // 16:49

as for the box covers.....who would most guys (the original target audience of this game) rather be looking at??? some ugly guy or some scantly clad lady??
Sex sells, the advertising departments of most companies know that and its also what they push on that game box.
so that is the answer to that one, however, just like most of the players didnt move from pve to pvp, more than just the demographics targeted bought (and played) the games....

Spookii · Nov 24, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Oh, well sorry! I missed the point of the thread completely, whoosh! Rofl.

I'd definitely say it's because girls in the game have better armor. Plus most guys I've asked this question to say they play girls because they don't want to stare at some guy's ass all day long. I play girls because I don't want to stare at some guy's ass all day long. XD

Milennin · Nov 24, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I don't see how having to look at a guy's ass all day long is a good excuse to make a girl character. If you're looking at your character's ass, you're doing it wrong, as you'll need to keep your attention to stuff that happens around you (monsters/opponents, perhaps?).

Spookii · Nov 24, 2010, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

I don't see how having to look at a guy's ass all day long is a good excuse to make a girl character. If you're looking at your character's ass, you're doing it wrong, as you'll need to keep your attention to stuff that happens around you (monsters/opponents, perhaps?).

Not trying to be annoying or anything, but just because you say it's a bad excuse doesn't mean that it is lol. :P

Nekodesu · Nov 24, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookii

Not trying to be annoying or anything, but just because you say it's a bad excuse doesn't mean that it is lol. :P

True but if you say such an excuse I'd say you're scared of being homo. Sorry, but to me alot of men who say that, usually are 13-18yrs old who are actually scared of well, having their sexuality question

Thought I've been harrased cause a guy thought I was a guy playing females. He said I must be gay since I dress up females and stuff.
But don't worry about the thread thing, it's okay, I wasn't really clear anyways with it in the start, so it's my fault.

I just feel they did a poor job on the males in the game... & the boxart thing; The game industry thinks gamers are 12 years old boys who need their sexual desires to be satisfied through games. What I think is weird; is that it seems guys don't really mind being looked at this way

Spookii · Nov 24, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

I can't speak for the guys who say that, but I know that I don't want to stare at the backend of a male character because it really looks awkward to me. It's not appealing to the eye at all (and I'm not speaking about how I feel about it sexually).

If they improve the way the males look in GW2, I'll gladly play a male Norn!

I do like male Dervish, but I still play a female Dervish just because that's how I feel.

I think it's easier to see why people play females more than males if you look at Paragons. It's easier to understand how someone feels about playing females over males with people who don't want to play male Paragons because they feel awkward about running around in a he-skirt that stops above the knees. Most people would be like "Okay, I can see that". Sure, it's just a game, but we're all still human and we tend to empathize with things that are human-like (even pixels). Running around on a role-playing game in a character that makes you feel...weird, may not be your favorite idea of a good time.

My reasoning:
The females move better, look better, and their armor is downright cute! Plus, as I said before, I feel like I can slip into the characters easier when I play.

Males? Not so much.

Arato · Nov 25, 2010, 07:00 AM // 07:00

I don't do the whole "staring at backend" excuse cause let's face it, they didn't develop these females with much junk in the trunk. All their asses are flat, it's the one aspect of the women in game they didn't do very well. They gave them nice faces, nice outfits, breasts including some jiggle physics in some animations, cleavage revealing outfits... and... flat asses. With males... well, all the outfits I have them in have something covering their backside so there's nothing gross to look at. Like the chest armor blouses over the leggings. Either way the backside ain't much to look at. It is one of the reasons I won't get obsidian armor on my ranger though.

Nekodesu · Nov 25, 2010, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arato

I don't do the whole "staring at backend" excuse cause let's face it, they didn't develop these females with much junk in the trunk. All their asses are flat, it's the one aspect of the women in game they didn't do very well. They gave them nice faces, nice outfits, breasts including some jiggle physics in some animations, cleavage revealing outfits... and... flat asses. With males... well, all the outfits I have them in have something covering their backside so there's nothing gross to look at. Like the chest armor blouses over the leggings. Either way the backside ain't much to look at. It is one of the reasons I won't get obsidian armor on my ranger though.

If you say their asses are flat, which they are not, what did you expect? Beyoncy asses? I'm happy my female characters don't run around with huge asses. Much more I wish some of them didn't have to run around with abnormal breasts either : /

Arduin · Nov 25, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Those breasts wouldn't be abnormal when their butts were a bit bigger and when there would have been some more meat on their thighs and belly.

AmbientMelody · Nov 25, 2010, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Those breasts wouldn't be abnormal when their butts were a bit bigger and when there would have been some more meat on their thighs and belly.

Well, then I'm afraid we wouldn't be playing GW anymore, but something else ...

hint 1 (this is where you are for a treat of women objectivisation):

http://www.kotowari.org/wp-content/u...2_14d08a53.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nosbk-7sr-...soul_art_1.jpg
http://img1.mmo.mmo4arab.com/news/20...deandsoul1.jpg
http://www.onlinemassivelymultiplaye...oul-Online.jpg

hint 2 (a good example of underdog status of women ... concentrate on the facial expression, reminds me of sexual slave from cheap hentai):

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs49/f/20...y_reaper78.jpg

Even original GW had some subtle touches like these, but none of it was overdone ... at the very least I didn't refer to women characters as sex RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs in original GW.

Let's see what they do for the GW2, though

I want the males to finally look like they deserve to ... I'm a bit tired of this male sexism given sucky character customisation, sucky armour sets and sucky costumes. If I play a fantasy game, then I'd rather escape from the sad cliques of real life at least for a little while ...

If I were to lobby for any character design style, then I'd vote Aion. Nothing is overdone and the shapes are pretty natural with good deal of customisation and fantastic armour design. I've faith for GW2 artists, though, even if Norn, Asura and Sylvari didn't quite hit the quality bar yet at released in-game screenshots & trailers.

Arato · Nov 25, 2010, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

If you say their asses are flat, which they are not, what did you expect? Beyoncy asses? I'm happy my female characters don't run around with huge asses. Much more I wish some of them didn't have to run around with abnormal breasts either : /

They are flat. there's no "cheek" to em. Maybe it sticks out from the back a little but there's no definition. It's like they just put a little pillow in the back of their pants. Butts aren't shaped like that! There's some shape and contour to them! Especially when I have one of my toons in tight leather pants (Mesmer Elite Rogue armor) and her groove thing still doesn't have any shape!